Building B2B Creator Programs with Fiona Turko

Full Transcript

Lightly edited for filler words, false starts, and crosstalk. Speaker language and phrasing preserved.

Intro

Dmitry: Welcome to What’s Your Process? Today we’re joined by Fiona Turko. She is the creator partnerships lead at Gamma. We go back to her Zapier days. Fiona, it’s great to see you. How are you?

Fiona: Amazing. Good. How are you doing?

Dmitry: Well, thank you. I’ve been excited for this one, because I think the last time I saw you was in Utah, and I can’t believe that was so many months ago.

Fiona: That feels like it was 65 years ago. But it’s always nice to chat virtually. We made so many friends during that trip, so it’s nice to reconnect with people.

Dmitry: Without a doubt. I love that the WhatsApp group is still going.

Fiona: I was going to tell you. I love that people still drop comments and questions in there. I don’t know how I’m still in there. I don’t work at Zapier anymore.

Dmitry: Most of us don’t either, to be fair. [laughter]

Fiona: WhatsApp groups just in general seem to be popping off. It’s much bigger in certain parts of the world, but it’s really coming to North America, and there are so many cool groups that are quite small and quite niche that people are really active in. I always love it when I pull up a message from that group.

Dmitry: And now you’re at Gamma, which is really exciting. Such a cool company. Being in the creative AI space, they’re one of the few that are doing it relatively well, navigating and kind of leading the path. That’s got to be pretty cool.

Fiona: I feel like there’s this whole new wave of AI companies that deeply understand creators and the importance of working with creators and influencers. Shout out to Grant and Kristen, who got that from the beginning. Grant used to literally onboard influencers, do demos for them, handle invoicing. That’s so rare for an AI tech startup CEO and co-founder. It really helped accelerate the entire program at Gamma, which is amazing.

Dmitry: That’s fantastic. But let’s not talk about Gamma just yet. Let’s talk about you. What do people need to know about you?

Fiona: For me, my journey in tech has been really interesting. I started my career in fashion and startups, working with creators before Instagram was even monetized, which is a million years ago now. We were gifting product to community members, and it naturally turned into, oh, I saw so-and-so wearing this product, I want to buy it. True influencer roots, before it was probably even called that. I’ve been doing this for a long time, and it’s really unique to see how the space has changed over the years, especially now with all the AI stuff happening.

Dmitry: That’s really cool. Having been in it early and understanding the space is so interesting, because I think about my own experience, and for the longest time it was, you’ve got to become an influencer, and I was always like, but I don’t want to be an influencer. So this idea now of having your influencers but also your creators, with a clear separation between the two, is really nice, because it’s not just about reach as much anymore. It’s also about expertise and knowledge sharing, and you can really establish yourself in your niche in a very different kind of way.

Fiona: There are entire agencies now that just represent knowledge creators. That is so niche. There are also a lot of talent managers who work only with AI YouTubers and thought leaders on LinkedIn. It can get so niche and so specific, and that didn’t exist even a couple of years ago. Things are changing so quickly, and it’s really interesting to see how quickly on the brand side. But there’s definitely a difference in my mind between creators and influencers, and that’s developed more over the years. Influencer is kind of becoming a dirty word. When I think of a creator, a creator is somebody who is making content as their full-time job. They’re editing. They understand that deeply. They have their favorite brands that they want to work with. If they don’t have a 9 to 5, they are full-time content creators, whereas an influencer can rep many different brands. It’s a different kind of process, I think.

Dmitry: Oh, that’s fascinating, because I’ve always thrown myself in the creator bucket, but I would not be a creator based on your definition, because I do technically have a 9 to 5.

Fiona: But you have an agency. I think that’s a little bit different.

Dmitry: I’ll take it. I don’t want to change my LinkedIn headline, so...

Fiona: There are also lots of creators now who started as influencers, became full-time content creators, and then have their own startup. They might have a physical product or an agency. They start to become founders or investors from the content creation they do and the networks they make. That’s a very new thing I’ve been seeing, especially in SF. So their full-time business might be an agency, or a product you can buy online, but they also make content and have millions of followers on TikTok or Instagram. I think that’s really unique.

Dmitry: That sounds really cool. When I grow up, maybe one day. [laughter]

Fiona: It’s a lot of Gen Z creators, I feel like, doing that. Their entrepreneurial spirit is just so different. If you’re a millennial or a Gen X, we got boxed into things, where it’s like, this is the way it has to be, and they were like, no, it doesn’t.

Dmitry: I love that about Gen Z.

Fiona: Rules, yeah. I’m definitely a millennial, but when I see those younger creators who are just starting companies, they have agencies, they also film and edit content and understand music, it’s so interesting to me how they can truly do it all. It’s a whole new generation of creators.

What is one thing you’re world class at?

Dmitry: We’ve been teasing it, we’ve been talking about it. What is one thing you’re world class at?

Fiona: I think I’m good at building community, and at the perspective I take when it comes to building influencer or creator programs, ambassador programs, whatever you want to call it. It’s how you source and formalize your partnership with your biggest brand advocates, your biggest brand fans. That’s the low-hanging fruit for me. I was a sponge when I was at Jobber trying to figure that out. We were a pretty scrappy team of three. I brought that playbook to Zapier and built it out pretty quickly. But I think it’s building community and treating creators as an extension of your brand, versus these one-off partnerships where you’re with them one month and then they don’t hear from you for six months. I much prefer long-term partnerships, where you nurture those partners and those relationships over time so that they authentically represent your brand, and you can invite them on brand trips to the middle of the desert and they’ll say, yeah, I want to come out to that. There are a lot of really big brands that haven’t figured out that piece and operate very differently. So that’s the perspective I have when I come into a program and look at things with fresh eyes.

Dmitry: I love that lens, where it’s not just a one-off, or we’re launching a product, or we have this big moment in time coming up so let’s throw a bunch of money at it. It’s that we’re going to have a consistent push, and we’re going to give creators and people who believe in us an opportunity to really shine. I’ve seen that firsthand. If people aren’t aware, I am a Zapier ambassador, and I am thanks to Fiona, so shout out to you on that one. I’ve been in the program now for a year or longer, I don’t know exactly at this point, but I didn’t know what to expect at first. I was wondering, are you going to tell me what to post and I have to post it now? And the ability to say, here’s what we’re thematically thinking about, go do your thing, has been huge, because it’s allowed me to maintain my authentic voice. I’ve had a long-standing relationship with Zapier as a customer, but now it feels very different, because of the opportunity you and your colleagues have allowed for in terms of bringing your authentic self. Just show us some love here and there.

Fiona: I feel like nobody hates a script more than me. I don’t want to see somebody reading a script. That just ruins it. And your audience can tell. It doesn’t feel authentic. I would much rather you give an honest opinion about the product or the tool, even if it’s not 100% positive. Keep it real. I much prefer that type of content as a consumer as well, when I’m scrolling on social media. That was a very intentional thing we did when we built out the program at Zapier: we’re going to give you a general theme, here are maybe some bullet points or talking points, but you run with it. We’ll still review it and approve it and provide any feedback that might be helpful, but I don’t think we ever did, here’s a script. We tried to avoid that at all costs.

Identify your top users

Dmitry: Let’s take a step back. Let’s go to the beginning. You mentioned already that there are companies who haven’t figured it out, or who aren’t even doing it at all. If I’m sitting there trying to figure out a new way to engage my audience, and I think an influencer program or a creator program might be interesting, where would you recommend starting?

Fiona: When I was at Zapier, I think this is the perfect example. It really is about identifying who your top users are, who your brand advocates are. You can look at your database for that: who’s given you their social handles, and cross-reference that. You can go onto the platforms manually and figure out who’s actually organically talking about you. Zapier was a very established brand. It had been around for 13 years by the time I joined, so it was very easy to identify who’s already talking about Zapier, who’s already in our network or informal community, and then basically formalize those partnerships. Meet with those people, and figure out whether they have an audience size that works for us. For us, we kept around 5,000 as the minimum, and that can be across channels. We kept it pretty small. But ideally you’re looking for people who could use Zapier in a way that demonstrated they knew the product really well, inside and out. They can show something on screen, run through a workflow, and speak to it confidently. Not everybody can do that for the more technical tools.

Then start with a really small pool of people, and every month start to grow it. Some people might not be in the program forever. That’s fine. Try to optimize and make the partnership work, and then backfill if not. Slowly keep adding people month over month, and before you know it you’ll have 50 people who, whether you call it an influencer program or an ambassador program, are really an extension of your brand. They’re talking about you online, but also offline, at events, at conferences, with peers, with colleagues. Slowly grow that over time, and make sure you treat them well. You pay them well. You send them a card on their birthday, or if they’re sick, send them a basket. I talk about that all the time, trying to make it a bit more personal, too. Those partners will always be more loyal to you. Tech in particular is a very competitive space. All of us have competitors, so the better you treat your partners, the better. It’s amazing how many brands don’t do those personal touches. They don’t send a gift basket when somebody’s had a new baby or got married, or send flowers. It’s so easy to do those things, but so many brands don’t, and that really is what helps you keep partners long term. It’s just treat them like people.

Then you can add other tiers, like affiliates, ambassadors, or influencers that you bring on just for campaigns. But I really think having that always-on creator program is really, really important for any brand that’s thinking about going into it. Try it for three, six months. You can’t just do it for one month and then say, oh, we don’t have results. It didn’t work. It doesn’t work like that. It’s more of a slow burn. So whenever I chat with people and they say, oh, we want to start an influencer program, we don’t know how, I say, okay, well, make sure you’re setting aside at least three months, at least six months, to actually test this out, try some different things, and figure out what works for you, because what worked for me at Zapier might not work for you at your company.

Dmitry: Our mutual friend Ryan posted something. He had just started working with the Zapier team on something, and I guess you had sent him a swag box, and he was talking about how much his wife loved the brown sweater. I made a joke, I was just like, oh, my wife would love that, too. Something like that. And you know what? You paid attention. You saw that. You sent that box, and my wife loves that sweater. There’s a 60% chance she’s in the other room right now wearing it. I think those small moments and those opportunities, it’s not just an influencer or creator thing, but as a partner, as anyone trying to maintain and build relationships, those small moments make and break everything. Everyone expects something on their birthday. Everyone expects something at the holidays. But it’s those in-between interims where it’s, hey, you see me as a human being. That’s a beautiful thing, and I love that you do that, and I’d love to see more people taking note of that.

The other thing, and you started this with identifying your top users, identifying your top advocates: it’s not go find the person with the biggest following. It’s not go pay one of these influencer agencies to source whoever. I want to find and work with people who know what they’re talking about, not just within the broader space, but within my product, within my service, within my vertical. I think that’s where a real sense of legitimacy comes from, because it’s not just, pay attention to Zapier or Gamma or Jobber because I have a lot of followers. It’s, here’s this really cool workflow that I came up with that’s saving me tons of time, and you can build it yourself right now. Can you talk to me a little about that? Because I think the default for a lot of companies, and the whole it-doesn’t-work mentality, comes from: I just paid 20, 30, 50 grand, I don’t know what these numbers are, but I just paid a lot of money for someone with a bazillion followers, and yeah, we got a ton of views, but no signups, no conversions, no meetings, no nothing.

Fiona: It all goes back to what your goals are. If you’re in a really noisy space and you have the money to throw at creators, to say, hey, we want to work with, I don’t know, the Mr. Beasts of the world, okay, maybe that makes sense, but I wouldn’t start there necessarily. I think the more authentic you can be, and the more of a grassroots approach, which to me is much more sustainable long term in terms of building those relationships, you often also get extra content at no cost, because those people want to prove to you that they want to work with you long term. Not that I’m promoting taking advantage of people, but the Mr. Beasts of the world won’t do that, I can guarantee you. You want to work with people who are flexible. If you release a new tool and you ask them, hey, can you post within 24 to 48 hours, they’re genuinely excited to try the new feature or the new tool and post about it and be a part of this wave. But it really goes back to your goals, and I don’t think that starting big really gets you anywhere. I would much rather start small, keep it contained, and organically grow it over time and build those long-term partnerships. You just get so much more out of it long term than working with those big folks.

But you can always test working with some bigger folks. There’s no reason not to, if you have the budget and you’re willing to accept that level of risk, which obviously not every company is. You can put bets and say, okay, I’m going to work with this person over here and see if it works out. A lot of the time, with those bigger creators, in my experience, it doesn’t really lead to much, like what you said earlier about signups. It’s great for maybe some brand awareness, but it’s much better if you tie it to a big launch, a big event, a big campaign. That shouldn’t be the bread and butter of your program.

Dmitry: 100%. That’s not the right way to look at it.

Goals and measurement

Dmitry: What are the goals or objectives that you should be thinking about if you’re starting up a program?

Fiona: Depending on the company, they might just want to create noise in the space, and they’re looking for impressions, reach, engagement, things like that. But most companies are focused on bottom of funnel, so they actually want us to drive signups and see revenue coming in. That can take a while. That can take easily six months. It takes a while for a creator’s audience to warm up to your product, especially if it’s their first time hearing about it. That’s why I always recommend working with people who are organically already talking about you, because their audience will already be warmer to that, and it also makes it much easier to run ads or to allowlist through that. So it’s a bit of a process, but always focus on those people who are already advocating for you, formalize that partnership, and turn it into something over time.

Dmitry: If bottom of funnel, for example, is the way, we’ve established that it’s a long-term bet. It’s going to take some time. Are there any short-term signals to look for?

Fiona: Yeah, I would recommend a tool like PartnerStack, where you can see link clicks, signups, conversions, and then pair that with a tool like CreatorIQ or Aspire, where you can see the social media metrics. As far as I know, in B2B SaaS there’s no one platform that brings it all together. But for me, especially if something goes viral, I want to be able to see, okay, this performed really well on social, but what did it actually mean? Was their audience actually interested? Did they bring anybody qualified into our pipeline, which isn’t always the case? That’s where the PartnerStacks of the world come in, so you can actually see the bottom-of-funnel metrics and have a deeper understanding of who their audience is. That’s also really important for paid ads, especially when you’re testing, to have a deep understanding of, yes, this performed well on social, but did it actually lead to any signups?

Ideally, your program is generating revenue, not just doing well on social, but that can take a while, especially if you’re working with creators you’ve never worked with before. You’ve had to onboard them onto your tool. They’re learning it for the first time. The ramp-up period to see ROI is going to be much longer than activating somebody who’s already using your tool. You don’t need to demo or onboard them. It accelerates the entire process. You can probably see ROI in two to three months versus six to nine months. That’s also why I say start with your advocates, keep it small, and grow it from there.

Experiment with paid

Dmitry: Are you doing any kind of paid, or anything like that, to support certain posts or certain creators?

Fiona: Yeah. At Jobber we did a ton of paid. At Zapier we did some. Gamma has actually been mostly what we would call organic sponsored content, where we’re not putting paid spend behind it, which is insane. That’s not the norm. Most brands are doing paid, a lot of allowlisting or boosting of thought leadership ads on LinkedIn. I would just say, for anybody interested in exploring it, reserve 10 to 20% of your budget for paid. You don’t have to pay for it upfront if you’re new and not sure what’s going to perform well organically, but also only boost what’s performing well organically. Get more eyeballs on it, get more value out of it. It’ll drive down CPMs. Then as you start to do that, rotate in fresh content quite often. Once you’ve gotten the most out of that video, swap it in for something else, and have somebody who’s an expert on that channel who can optimize those ads and tell you when they need fresh creative.

I think we’re all just very bored of seeing brand ads. When I see a brand ad, I don’t trust it. I don’t care. I skip through it. But when I see a recommendation from a peer, even if I know it’s an ad or sponsored, I’m more inclined to watch and see what they’re saying. So I think that’s definitely the future of advertising: actually getting content from peers versus straight from a brand.

Dmitry: Can you say more about that? Because I agree 100%. I’d be curious, as someone who’s on the inside of this, to get your take on why.

Fiona: We’ve lost trust in brands generally, and I think we’re trending in this direction where we’d much rather have a true recommendation. Even if we don’t know that person, if we recognize them, if it’s somebody we find aspirational as a creator, it’s just much more reliable and authentic than a brand ad. There’s obviously still a place for the brand ads of the world, but I think we’re really going in that direction. Actors can also be influencers, musicians can also be influencers, so when they make a recommendation, it’s also more authentic than just the brand saying, buy this, or this is great because XYZ. I think it’s been happening for a while, ever since Instagram came up. You want to see what your peers are talking about. You’re interested in what they recommend. I think it’s just human nature to want a recommendation from a peer versus a brand that feels quite fake.

Dmitry: And I think, to your point, even if you know it’s paid or sponsored, there are people whose opinions I value and people whose opinions I don’t. If someone whose opinion I value says, go use this product, or I’ve been using this product for X amount of time and I think you should try it, there’s a legitimacy that’s lent to it through their lens of credibility. Whereas alternatively, it’s just, I don’t care what you have to say, and good for you on grabbing that bag. Where I’m going with this is that people still trust people. People will hopefully always trust people, but it’s also the right people. And this is where, going back to the very beginning, about identifying your top users and advocates, it’s like, I have this Liquid Death water bottle on my right, and I love this. I love Liquid Death. I think they’ve done a great job. But if I start promoting water tomorrow, you’re going to be like, what is this? They’ll get destroyed.

Fiona: Exactly.

Dmitry: Whereas me promoting Zapier makes perfect sense, because I was doing it for free for the longest time. Now it’s just an added bonus that it comes in, and it just makes sense.

Fiona: Yes. Whereas when you don’t trust the person, it’s never going to work out. I know we were chatting about what your first official sponsored post for Zapier could be, and I said, can it just be about your story, how you’ve been using Zapier for five years, even before this? We’re just formalizing this partnership now that we have this program. I think that reads much more authentic to your audience, because they’ll remember your past posts, too.

Something I always think about, too, is working with smaller creators especially, who are more often talking about their tech stack, the tools they love. They’re trying to grow their audience. Once they work with a bigger tech brand like Zapier, it also makes them more attractive to complementary brands. Zapier has over 8,000 integrations, so there are so many tools you talk about using with Zapier when you’re talking about Zapier in a sponsored post. That opens up a whole new network for these smaller creators who are trying to grow an audience, and it makes them more appealing to bigger brands that want to work with them, which I think is great. The bigger creators of the world don’t really need that. They’re already working with the bigger brands, so there’s so much more value for the smaller creators to partner up.

I’m happy to work with creators and figure out what the content concept could be, but in most cases the best place to start is to find those creators who are so eager to work with you. You’re going to get so much more value. And in terms of paid ads, when that content becomes a paid ad, or you’re putting some spend behind it, it’s so much more authentic compared to somebody you taught your tool two weeks ago, where you just did a demo. It’s so different, and we can see that performance when you’re talking to demand gen or paid ads and you’ve run an ad. Somebody who’s a true brand advocate but has a super tiny audience, versus that bigger creator who actually doesn’t know your product but is more flashy: that smaller creator nine times out of 10 outperforms the bigger one. It’s also a fresh face for people to see when you’re boosting that content, versus the same creator they’ve seen all the time. So that’s something to keep in mind for a paid strategy: refreshing the content, working with those smaller creators, getting a ton of value from that, and helping them move up and work with more brands. Very mutually beneficial.

Dmitry: I want to go back to something you said a minute ago, because I remember the first time I was going to do this. I was very wary. I put together this workflow, and it starts in Fathom, and then there’s a Zap, and that goes into Google Drive, and then that feeds a Perplexity thing, and I was just like, you’re paying me money to talk about Zapier, so I feel really weird tagging all these other brands. And you were like, no, no, no, go for it. That’s what it’s all about. That’s the ecosystem. I feel like a lot of brands would be nervous, like, well, don’t mention them, because they’re not paying you, I’m paying you. Your approach is very different. So what makes Zapier so special?

Fiona: It’s those 8,000-plus integrations. That is the most integrated automation platform in the world, and it’s also their competitive advantage. They have relationships with all of these tools, big, small, medium, that people genuinely use in their work and that make their life easier. That’s the whole point, right? Setting up a workflow gives you time back, makes you more efficient, especially if you’re a lean team or a small business owner. That’s their bread and butter. And then for enterprise teams who are context switching between dozens of tools, like we all are every day in these bigger teams, it was a really natural fit: yeah, you should be talking about these brands, we work with them, we’re proud of it. Especially this new wave of AI brands. Any content where you mention ChatGPT, OpenAI, Claude, or Notion just performs really well. People are curious.

And then for Gamma, we’re building out more API integrations and connectors. We just launched a Claude connector, actually: build a Gamma deck within Claude. You never have to leave Claude, and it has all your context. All you have to type is, hey, build me a Gamma around this topic, and it generates the Gamma in two seconds in Claude, and then you just have a presentation. You didn’t even have to leave Claude. That’s a crazy unlock for salespeople and agencies who are using Claude or another chatbot partner, and you just want to create a deck without having to copy and paste everything over. It’s so time-consuming. So I just think there are so many great tools that people can talk about within their work ecosystem, their tech stack. It would be a miss to not talk about that, because the reality is people are using multiple tools. As long as it’s not a direct competitor, you’re probably good.

Dmitry: One, I love that Gamma has become its own verb at this point. Make a Gamma. This is the first time I’ve heard that, and it just fits. It feels weirdly natural. So congratulations on that one. Let’s talk about Gamma for a second, though, because you’re not starting from the ground up. You were telling me a little behind the scenes how the CEO started a lot of this and would onboard creators himself and handle invoicing and all this stuff, which I think you said was unheard of. I would completely agree with that. What’s it like coming into an organization that has a strong foundation and is looking at you to now build up on that?

Fiona: It’s really different from what I’ve done at Zapier and Jobber, where it’s super scrappy. You’re building literally from nothing, and the budget is peanuts, and you’re trying to stretch it as much as possible. We still do that at Gamma. We want to be responsible with how we’re spending our money and where we’re allocating it. But it’s such a robust program to step into already. So for me it’s more about figuring out what our weak points are, where we need to improve, and what’s running like a well-oiled machine that we just want to keep going. For us it’s more about building long-term relationships. How do we do more events globally? Something quite unique about Gamma is that 80% of our paid users are outside North America. So we’re already a very global brand, and we localized very early in Gamma’s journey to all different languages around the world, and that’s a big part of it. A lot of tech companies don’t do that. It’s an afterthought.

So a lot of the work we’re doing is, okay, how do we show up in these countries? How do we do events that work for that local culture, for that local customer? What do they want to see from us? That’s very different from what I’ve done in the past, but still very scrappy, very resourceful, and just so exciting, because there aren’t many tech companies at a global scale like that that deeply care about, oh, how do we weave in influencers? Let’s do something for influencers. Usually influencers and creators are a total afterthought, if that at all. So I’m so lucky to have Grant and Kristen say, oh no, this is a priority for us. What can we do for influencers? It would be a missed opportunity if we didn’t do this for our creators. That’s very, very unique.

Niching down

Dmitry: This kind of comes back to your point on trust, brand trust specifically. Gamma’s cool and growing and everyone wants to get in on it, sure, but you’re not necessarily just relying on the hype factor. You’re working specifically with people who work within Gamma, who understand the space, who understand the audience and the context, and then you’re taking it on a regionalized basis, which I think is a really specific and interesting point. Whoever it might be may be great for English-speaking countries or North America specifically, but they may not play in France, they may not play in Germany, they may not play in Southeast Asia or LATAM or whatever. So I think the next evolution is, we’ve identified top users, we’ve set goals, we’ve figured out how to measure, we’ve experimented with paid, and now you’re niching down.

Fiona: Yes. That’s why it’s really important, something we’re trying to do, to find great people in those markets who can help us. Language barriers are also quite real when you’re a global brand. It’s about finding people who understand influencers and creators in that local market and have a network. In Brazil, for example, they don’t like email or text. They love WhatsApp. All the communities are in WhatsApp. Korea, Seoul, has its own version of that that everybody’s in, and they’re mostly smaller groups. WhatsApp isn’t that big of a thing in North America. So there are so many nuances and so much context that it’s really helpful to have a team on the ground who can support you as you expand and test in different markets too.

It’s a really exciting stage for us. There are so many brands who are trying to do, whether it’s inviting creators to your office, doing a demo, doing a lunch, doing a Super Bowl dinner. But for us, it’s what can we tie it to, product-wise or culturally, that actually makes sense? Gamma is such a horizontal tool. It can be used by so many different types of people. There are a billion use cases, which keeps it so fun. There’s so much variety, so the options in terms of global activations are endless.

Dmitry: If you were sponsoring a booth at INBOUND or Dreamforce or something like that, would you bring influencers or creators to that space?

Fiona: That’s something we talk about a lot, especially with our agencies. Say your team, whether it’s Zapier or Gamma, whatever, actually can’t go to that conference. Can you activate influencers or creators to go on your behalf, to speak on panels, do sidecar events, host a dinner? That’s where having an ambassador program, or a really tight-knit community of people who truly are an extension of your brand, helps. You can activate them and say, hey, we have this opportunity, would you be interested, versus the old school way of your team goes, you set up a booth, you do it. There are so many different fun ideas and different ways you can take those events. I think the biggest one I’ve seen is brands not actually buying space on those floors and doing activations outside for a quarter or half the cost. You’re still there. You can literally do a takeover in the Lyft app. You can have your logo. You can wrap the Lyfts or the Ubers. There are so many things you can do now that don’t involve buying that space officially on the floor, which is very old school now. But I think that’s where working with people who are super creative, who have those ideas and can action them quickly, is really interesting.

Dmitry: We’re looking into it for the agency, and there are plenty of people who just go without even attending the actual event. They’re just in the vicinity, and if that’s enough, then that’s enough, right? You have enough eyeballs, you generate enough awareness, you get enough people starting conversations or asking questions, and that’s a huge win. And the event space on any given convention floor is way overpriced, in my opinion. It’s usually people who are already either using or at least very aware of what you do. So what’s the point? After a certain point it’s more clout than actual...

Fiona: Yeah. And don’t forget about us. We’re here, our competitors are here, but we’re here. It becomes a competitive thing too, right? I’d much rather see a really unique activation, like a coffee shop takeover. What Claude has been doing in New York with their coffee shop takeovers and the swag, I think, is so genius. I’m like, oh, this is really cool, this is not your standard B2B SaaS kind of thing. So I think it’s fun when brands have fresh ideas. I don’t want to go to a boring conference and walk around.

Dmitry: We’re all tired of that, so let’s do something fun.

Fiona: Gamma is a very fun brand, and it leans into creators more than a lot of AI brands. Hopefully we’re setting the bar for what’s possible, too.

Dmitry: For sure.

Stay in contact with your network

Dmitry: Before we wrap up, any last thoughts or ideas, or things in your process that maybe we didn’t cover?

Fiona: I think a big one, actually, is staying in contact with creators as you move about your career and as they do, too. Those WhatsApp groups, texting. I have so many text chats with agencies and past partners and people I’ve met over the years, and it’s crazy how your paths will cross in the future, and you don’t even realize it. We’re going on this world tour, and I’m actually getting to meet people in these cities that I’ve only ever talked to. We’re going to meet in real life now that I’m at Gamma. I have this opportunity. So nurture your network, stay in contact with people.

Dmitry: Yeah, don’t be a [bleep].

Fiona: Be kind. Don’t ever be afraid to DM somebody, hey, can we chat for 20 minutes? I love what you’re doing over here with this brand, or, how did you make this career move? I’ve done that so much in my career, and so many people are so kind to give you their time to chat about their career, their journey, a cool project they did. It’s just great for networking.

What’s next?

Dmitry: What’s next? Where can we see this process in action?

Fiona: Oh gosh, the Gamma World Tour is probably a big stake-in-the-ground moment for Gamma of, we are a global brand. We have built this network of creators across the world, of users. We’re going to Seoul, London, and São Paulo, it looks like in the second half of March. I don’t know when this will be live, but probably after.

Dmitry: Check the recap stuff.

Fiona: Yes. Check out Gamma’s LinkedIn, Gamma’s Instagram. You’ll see content, and there will be many more events and big moments to come where we can meet people in real life.

Dmitry: Love that. Well, everyone give Fiona a follow on LinkedIn. Check out Gamma. You won’t be disappointed. It’s super, super cool. Thank you so much for the time. Thank you for sharing, Fiona. It was great to see you.

Fiona: Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.